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----------------------------Original message---------------------------- Colleagues- many thanks for your replies. Several people asked me to summarize for the list, so: From: J Lindsey Hagood <[log in to unmask]> John Hagood, MIT Libraries The producers of both Pro-Cite and EndNote have one-month demonstration packages available from their sites on the Web. ( www.niles.com and www.risinc.com/pc/pcmain.html ) They purport to let one sort and manipulate the sample cites they've preloaded. EndNote seems bigger on marketing its interface with the Web (as if that's the premier place for finding legitimate information) and library catalogs across the country. Also, the question of who is or will be Z39.50 compliant must make a big difference in how well these work. I can't say that in looking at the presentation of data in either package is particularly inspiring, but at least the citations and notes are saved and malleable. If it makes any difference, I get the impression that EndNote is what people think of first nowadays (maybe that's just in the sciences, however), whereas earlier in the decade, ProCite ruled. I've not spotted any trustworthy evaluations in PC-industry magazines, but again, have only begun. A few Less self-interested evaluations are on the web, and listserves are supposed to exist for users of both products. From: Rachel Frew <[log in to unmask]> one of our medievalists swears by software called papyrus. their website is www.rsd.com. From: "Mitchell, James" <[log in to unmask]> James Mitchell, Assistant Reference Librarian Frick Art Reference Library: I've been struggling with ProCite (version 3.4) for a couple months now, and find it a little frustrating. I've been using it to download records from our opac, an Innovative Interfaces system, which has a "ProCite format" export option (with comma-delimited fields). I had to try a few different telnet programs before I found one, Hyperterminal, that handled the diacritics properly. Now that it works, it's still rather cumbersome. After exporting the records, one must save the export file, then import that into ProCite, then use the Bibliography feature to output, which generally requires defining an "output style" first, in order to get the desired fields in the desired order; I usually output to a Word file to do additional formatting/page layout. Eureka also provides a "ProCite format" export option, but I haven't gotten it to work. We also have FirstSearch here, which doesn't provide a similar option. There is also a companion program called BiblioLink, which apparently is used with dbases that don't provide comma-delimited exporting. I haven't tried it yet. I also haven't tried to use ProCite for managing bibliographies and footnotes within a document. Overall, I'd say that it's a pretty powerful program, with lots of features and options, but it requires much effort to configure adequately. (In particular, I have had to change the setup in our opac that defines what MARC fields are exported; I'm guessing your faculty member wouldn't be able to do that.) I would probably find it more useful for maintaining longer bibs, even if needing to manually enter records. From: lynn wojcik <[log in to unmask]> I haven't used Pro-Cite in several years, but it was an excellent bibliographic product when I used it. I started out using the DOS version, which was kind of clunky, but the Windows version was a much improved product. The fields are automatically formated and numerous, you can fill in as little or as much data as needed, and diacritics are supported. Pro-Cite sells a companion product, Biblio-Link to gather data from other database sources, which sounds like what your faculty member needs. A great feature, is the fact that you can output the data in any style format needed, Chicago, MLA, etc. One caveat, Pro-Cite is a bibliographic tool only. I attempted to also format it for other database uses by constructing my own fields and punctuation files for output. It can be done, but is a very labor intensive process. For non-bibliographic data, another software product that allows more flexibility would be a better bet. From: Kimberly Collins <[log in to unmask]> I am by no means a computer expert, but this spring I investigated both the EndNote software and ProCite software for my small museum library. I was initially impressed with EndNotes because: 1) It was almost $100 cheaper 2) The new version promised to have many more filters (import configurations) than ProCite did. I bought EndNotes and easily installed the software from a handy CD-ROM. The screen was VERY basic and did not seem to have as many on-screen features as the ProCite interface. The manual stated that one should create only one EndNote database and then form separate groups for different subject bibliographies from that one database. In this way, duplicates can be identified as soon as they are imported. I believe that importing records from the internet is easier with EndNotes rather than ProCite. HOWEVER, I wanted to export records directly from OCLC as I cataloged them and then import them into the software. The EndNotes sales people promised me that would be no problem--if their OCLC filter didn't work, they would create a special filter for me. But it turns out, they could not create a filter for data files. Only ProCite can do this, and then only if you specially request a free DOS bibliolink disk. I returned EndNotes and bought ProCite, and for what I use it for(creating new book lists) it has done well. With ProCite, you create and maintain several databases at a time (although there is a GROUP feature that can be used). I like being able to easily click on an author, title, or keyword list of records within a database Marking, copying, and creating records is easy. I have also had no problem with creating, printing, or exporting bibliographies. When importing records from the DOS version; however, I have had to import them into a holding database and then copy them into the destination database (a REPLACE? prompt comes up when I try to import directly into a database from the DOS program). At first, I had a difficult time importing records from the internet because I had the wrong browser (I think you must have Netscape). It is easy to import a web page as a records, but I have had trouble importing the information about a book or journal from the web into ProCite (I think they do not have that many filters). RLIN's Eureka has a ProCite filter (created by RLIN not ProCite), but I have had trouble making it work. I guess my advice would be to find out what your Professor will be importing and talk to the tech (not sales) people at both EndNotes and ProCite. I hope my ramblings have been helpful. Please call me (404)733-4528 or e-mail me with any questions. From: "Virginia Funkhouser" <[log in to unmask]> Virginia Funkhouser Getty Conservation Institute I am currently working on about nine separate bibliographies used to support the various projects here at the Getty Conservation Institute. We are using the Mac version of Pro-cite right now, however, shortly we will be transferring everything over to the latest PC version of Pro-cite. My experience thus far has been favorable, the Mac Pro-cite software allows for manipulating and searching bibliographies in many useful ways. Most large online catalogs have a Pro-cite component to their export facilities - I have not had much problem with importing data from these types of sources. Unfortunately, my experience importing diacritic is bad - they just don't import with the Mac version of Pro-cite. You might want to check out the new PC version and see if it is any better. I usually have to go back into the individual records to correct the diacritic. Trudy Jacoby Trinity College Hallden Hall, Visual Resources Collection Hartford, CT 06106-3100 [log in to unmask] 860-297-2194