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Dan: Thanks for this explanation. I KNEW a cataloger would chime in! I'm grateful it was someone of your stature. I'm enough of a cataloger to appreciate the reasons. Unfortunately, the "application of the rules" doesn't really help the user. It's not a problem that's anyone's fault, our institutions are all strapped for cash (or so we're told) that few can go back and apply new relevant LCSHs to already cataloged pieces. There are so many examples where the CR is not applied, however, that Peter's query opened up (again) a chance for me to decry. I'm hoping social tagging of material will address this. L. -----Original Message----- From: ARLIS/NA List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Starr, Daniel Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 4:37 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [ARLIS-L] Catalogues raisonnes -- Chinese artists? Lee, This is a classic case of the negative effect of improved cataloging. LC cataloged the Wildenstein book in 1975 shortly after the first volume was published, but the subdivision "Catalogues raisonnés" wasn't created until the 1980's. As is typical in these situations, older cataloging was not updated. By the time the English translation was published in 1996 the subdivision was used, so even though the English title,"Monet, or, The triumph of Impressionism," doesn't even indicate that the set is a catalogue raisonné , the subdivision was correctly assigned. Daniel -----Original Message----- From: ARLIS/NA List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Lee Sorensen Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 4:11 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: [ARLIS-L] Catalogues raisonnes -- Chinese artists? Peter, The designation "catalogues raisonnes" in LC is consistently strange. Some of the most obvious catalogues raisonnes, like Wildenstein's 'Claude Monet: biographie et catalogue raisonné' don't get traced as a CR in the LCSH. It makes it tough to teach students to search under that designation when it seems to be used so quixotically. 'Will be interested in other responses. Lee Lee Sorensen Visual Studies Librarian Duke University Libraries -----Original Message----- From: ARLIS/NA List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Peter Blank Sent: Wednesday, November 17, 2010 11:30 AM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: [ARLIS-L] Catalogues raisonnes -- Chinese artists? Greetings Smart People, Can anyone explain why the LCSH convention of "catalogues raisonnes" does not apply to Chinese artists? In WorldCat, "Catalogues raisonnes" as a subject search, limited by language "Chinese" yields minimal results (19). But the same search, limiting to English, French, or German brings back thousands of hits. What gives? Is there a vernacular term (e.g., Werkverzeichnis) that corresponds and can be used when searching? Many thanks for any insight/tips. Cheers, Peter ----------------------------- Peter P. Blank Head Librarian Art& Architecture Library 102 Cummings Art Bldg. Stanford University Stanford, CA 94305-2018 [log in to unmask] Voice (650) 725-1038 FAX (650) 725-0140 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mail submissions to [log in to unmask] For information about joining ARLIS/NA see: http://www.arlisna.org/join.html Send administrative matters (file requests, subscription requests, etc) to [log in to unmask] ARLIS-L Archives and subscription maintenance: http://lsv.arlisna.org Questions may be addressed to list owner (Judy Dyki) at: [log in to unmask] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mail submissions to [log in to unmask] For information about joining ARLIS/NA see: http://www.arlisna.org/join.html Send administrative matters (file requests, subscription requests, etc) to [log in to unmask] ARLIS-L Archives and subscription maintenance: http://lsv.arlisna.org Questions may be addressed to list owner (Judy Dyki) at: [log in to unmask] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mail submissions to [log in to unmask] For information about joining ARLIS/NA see: http://www.arlisna.org/join.html Send administrative matters (file requests, subscription requests, etc) to [log in to unmask] ARLIS-L Archives and subscription maintenance: http://lsv.arlisna.org Questions may be addressed to list owner (Judy Dyki) at: [log in to unmask] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mail submissions to [log in to unmask] For information about joining ARLIS/NA see: http://www.arlisna.org/join.html Send administrative matters (file requests, subscription requests, etc) to [log in to unmask] ARLIS-L Archives and subscription maintenance: http://lsv.arlisna.org Questions may be addressed to list owner (Judy Dyki) at: [log in to unmask] ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~