I want to thank people for their comments on the piece I wrote for Art Documentation. It has been an eye-opener. I'll address the main points. I regret that I lack the space to address all comments that came my way on the list and behind the scenes. 1. About the dual-degree programs at Indiana and at Pratt: yes, I could have mentioned them, but the research, (and political maneuvering/sifting) needed to do it thoroughly and fairly would have been a PhD dissertation. I never intended to speak for all students in all library schools. This is why I wrote some of the piece in the first person, and why I revealed some embarrassing facts about my school, and myself as well. (Who wants to confess they didn't get a job, and why?) It is up to provosts and student organizations who are closer to those schools to ask whether the programmes at Indiana and Pratt are going to work out in the long-run -- and if they are really needed now. The principles of dual degreeism are certainly open to question wherever they are implemented -- especially if anything resembling a library school is involved. I would point out that the situations are different in Canada than in the US: the unemployment rate is much higher up here, possibly because of a higher rate of supply side education, possibly because of a higher rate of foreign ownership and immigration. But this only strengthens my point about the consequences of supply side education -- especially library schools: Americans don't need them, and Canadians can't afford them. Americans at least had the courage to close some library schools, I wish we had. 2. The way we now educate/train librarians isn't the only way possible. It's CUSTOMARY ONLY. And it's breaking down. Ask your colleagues how many now have MLS degrees. Some areas of librarianship have almost no MLS/LIS-degreed librarians. Harvard appears to use normal graduate degrees more often than not, as according to some sources, does Columbia. And map librarians: how many of these have an ALA-accredited degree? As a guess, I would imagine that almost half of all librarians have no ALA degree. And, if librarian' is defined as a person paid to work with information in a library, it is likely that less than 10% have ALA degrees. If Roma Harris is correct, the decline is probably accelerating. Add to that the growing user autonomy due to technology, and the obliteration of most of librarianship is in sight. Museums will be among the last to lose their librarians and archivists -- they may never lose all of them. Museums are special and will probably increase in value in the future -- they have artifacts and larger purposes. ALL IT TAKES IS ONE GOOD LIBRARIAN TRAINED/EDUCATED/FIT FOR WORK WITHOUT THE LIBRARY SCHOOL'S PARTICIPATION, AND MY POINT IS MADE. JUST ONE. In fact, there are thousands just like that in Canada and the U.S. Continuing Ed and Distance Ed is a generous concession to the library schools/library educators -- these avenues of instruction may not even be needed. 3. My "inflammatory" comments would only "surprise" the reader who has not been exposed to the critical literature in librarianship. My piece actually belongs to a genre: those criticizing fundamental principles of library education. The problem is that the schools appear to have chosen not to expose this material to their students. A bibliography of critical literature would begin with Cronin's "Shibboleth and Substance," move on to Roma Harris's work (Cronin and Harris spar with one another by the way) and would along the way include a couple of important pieces by art librarians: Jane Wright's argument about the nature of specialism v. generalism and Guy de Marco and Wolfgang Freitag's argument on the need for a new way to train specialists -- i.e., music and art librarians. ALL the critical writers devalue MLS/Library science education; ALL point to the need for genuine educations to replace them. And ALL point to the need to separate out the practical: to use on-the-job opportunities to learn the basics of the work. Cronin (1995) suggests 2-yr internships in libraries while removing library science itself from LIS schools (his own school included!), Freitag and many others suggest giving credit for MA/PHD courses in Art History/Music/History in place of many MLS courses. IFLA's Art Librarianship Reader is the best single source for all of the above with the exception of Cronin's classic piece. Art librarianship's long-standing distrust of the MLS is one of the best things about that branch of librarianship. A NEW, UPDATED IFLA ART LIBRARIANSHIP READER WOULD BE GREAT. THEN LOBBY TO HAVE LIBRARY SCHOOLS USE IT. BIBLIOGRAPHY Cronin, Blaise. "The Education of Library-Information Professionals: A Conflict of Objectives?" ASLIB OCCASIONAL PUBLICATION, No. 28, London, 1982 Cronin, Blaise. "Shibboleth and Substance in North American Library and Information Science Education." LIBRI, Vol 45 (1995) 45-63 De Marco, Guy and Freitag, Wolfgang. "Establishing Rapport with the large art or music collection." LIBRARY TRENDS 1975. Reprinted in IFLA's Art Librarianship Reader Why this literature is not mandatory reading is a mystery to me. If librarianship were a genuine profession, it would have to address it; if library education were a genuine graduate school experience, it would address it as a matter of course. 4. As to the "combination of very practical skills as well as theoretical ideas about the nature of information" making it possible to "think about how best make the information being catalogued available to patrons" -- this is the embodiment of the stunting qualities of dual degreeism that occurs when the library school is in charge of the degree arrangement. It confirms my point about the negative effect of dual degrees when an art history degree is directed primarily to the uses of library and information management rather than in its own directions. This is like using a Physics MSc/Trade school diploma dual degree to do plumbing. Plumbing is a good trade -- my father was a tradesman -- but I wouldn't want plumbers to have to take out 20,000 in student loans and a 2-year degree (with very little compensatory on-the-job training!) to be a plumber. Apprenticeships are a good way to learn a trade; and librarianship is a trade. Cataloguing continues to be needed -- but does a cataloguer need a library degree and $20,000 student loans to do this work? Probably not. And, in my experience, the one thing library school does not teach its students is how to evaluate what they read, otherwise there would be some evidence somewhere of courses on discourse analysis, radical librarianship and its own critical literature. We did endless tours of libraries and one silly piece of "practical" busywork after another, but we had no relevant intellectual work, or even LIBRARY SCHOOL SUPERVISED internships. 5. My complaints are indeed with the "MLS in general as being beneath the dignity of a scholar, and (2) with dual-degree students who he seems to feel may not be on a par with single-degree art historians." I may even be resentful. BUT the idea that "education is what you make of it, what you bring to the table and what you take away" is simplistic. This supply-side argument would seem to absolve the schools of responsibility. The schools have courses, they make you take a certain number; persons with power over you teach them; and you're not allowed to leave (in a positive way!) until you do all that's requested of you. And, human nature makes it difficult to admit a sacrifice was a waste. It has been hard for me. Library school "education" was a bit like being in the army (which at one point financed some of my university): no matter what you "take away from it" it's still the army. Yes, you can get fit, learn how to drive a tank, and appreciate something of what combat does to a person, but where is the "higher education" in this? You don't have the time -- you're in the army! The library school I know best is fundamentally anti-intellectual, obscurantist, and so dominated by busywork that you don't have time to think. I did a community college degree at one point, and would have to say that they are at about the same level, except that the library school does a poorer job of preparing you for work. C.S. Peirce said: "at least do not deter inquiry." It should be the equivalent of the Hippocratic oath for teachers and scholars. The library schools -- in providing dross with a cudgel -- deter inquiry. The only good I took out of my library school was: a thesis length argument -- which could not be made an official thesis because the dept has so few people qualified to supervise a thesis -- and a renewed appreciation of real knowledge produced in a real graduate department. 6. Someone else suggested that I was "bitter" and that this somehow would have an effect on what I wrote. I am so much more than bitter! $25,000 in student loans for a degree which I now believe could have been achieved through on-the-job training and a small concession or two to the intellectual skills I already possessed before even going to library school!? How do you think I feel?! I feel cheated. I was cheated, just as 20,000 librarians have been cheated over the course of time I was in library school. I wrote this piece to get people thinking. So that maybe library work preparation can be done better -- so that students don't have to do the stupid things we all did, when in fact most of it was never required at all. 8. And last, Joan Benedetti's presumption about my "personality." I HAVE NEVER MET MS BENEDETTI. SHE HAS NEVER MET ME. HER SLUR IS UNWARRANTED, AND IN BOTH OF OUR COUNTRIES QUALIFIES AS LIBELLOUS. WHAT SHE HAS SAID COULD BE CONSTRUED AS LIMITING MY ABILITY TO OBTAIN and/or PURSUE EMPLOYMENT, MOREOVER, APPEARS TO BE INTENDED TO PRODUCE THIS EFFECT. I AM OWED A RETRACTION. That said, what better indication of the pseudo-professional status of librarianship could you find than in Benedetti's remarks? Who else hires on the basis of personality (or "attitude") rather than knowledge: real estate, maybe; retail sales, more often than not; Starbucks, and lesser restaurants, certainly. Do you want your surgeon or your lawyer -- or your garage mechanic for that matter -- to have a "good personality" rather than knowledge? I guess librarians can be hired on lesser criteria. Which was one of my points all along. I leave librarianship behind to begin the pursuit of a PhD in Classics. Thank you. Gary Ditchburn Victoria BC. __________________________________________________________________ Mail submissions to [log in to unmask] Administrative matters (file requests, subscription requests, etc) to [log in to unmask] ARLIS-L Archives and subscription maintenance: http://lsv.uky.edu/archives/arlis-l.html Questions may be addressed to list owner (Kerri Scannell) at: [log in to unmask]